The dark side of modelling

I feel very glad I've not had such rudeness on any photoshoot - as an almost 34 year old model I know my body has changed a lot since I was in my 20s and luckily people tend to book me for my current look.

It's a shame you've experienced people being derogatory and negative about your body, just know there are sooooo many photographers who would never dream to do such a thing.

Dear photographers: book models with bodies you want to work with.

Dear model: keep your portfolio up to date and an album for "Polaroids" (just natural photos of what you currently look like) is always a great idea.

By the way, you are stunning with a fantastic portfolio!

It does take a LOT to be naked in front of a practical stranger, photographers need to remember that and imagine how THEY would feel if they were totally exposed and someone was rude about their body.

Sorry to hear about this behaviour which is very unpleasant and even frightening to varying degrees I would always recommend you leave a reference and also report to Admin and I believe there is a model safety group you might be able to leave a note on there 

Sorry to hear you experienced this....this is not an attempt to gaslight...or narcissist..or anything like that. Do you think you took offense to something that was not meant to offend... I have certainly been on group shoots beforez where I have heard similar conversations...but not in a detrimental way...I think once someone talks about body shapes, preferences for a model etc...i don't think they are trying to change anything...or implying you need to. But I can understand how if you are already uncomfortable how that may make you feel...but I don't think it's always easy to say the photographer is the bad guy here...it's all context and hearing how it was intended. Maybe if the photographer knew you were uncomfortable they can work with you better. Again...not gaslighting or anything before all the haters dive on me. I'm just saying it openly and what I think may help

As a photographer, I've always felt like making a model feel comfortable and at ease is one of the most important parts of trying to capture a good set of images. As a human being, it's simply not appropriate or fair to offer any kind of feedback as to a model's appearance based on personal preferences.

I think that oftentimes instances such as those being described in the OP are not typically intended to cause any upset or compromise a model's confidence, but are instead the result of poor social skills or awareness. That's not to say that these comments cannot have an affect on an individual, but in realising that they aren't said with malice is an important part of letting go of any hold the comments may have on you.

It is fair to say that every individual is entitled to their own opinion, and their own preferences. And these will vary wildly person to person. When somebody does pass comment on something inherently personal to you, it's important to frame that in the context of their individual opinion. And quite frankly, who gives a f**k what some random photographer thinks 😂

I appreciate that it's not always easy or immediately productive to say to somebody in the moment "I don't think that comment was fair" or "I was a little uncomfortable with what you said", but I think it would almost certainly benefit the individual if after the shoot, something diplomatic was sent their way such as:

"Thanks for a great shoot, I'm really looking forward to seeing the final images! I did just want to mention that I'm not sure I gave my best work for the entire shoot as I was a little upset that you said x at one point. Obviously I did my best to put it out of my mind, but if we do get the chance to work together again I think it would help me if there were fewer comments that might affect my ability to produce the best work for both of us. I've got some exciting ideas that I think you'd be great at capturing and I know you've got some great ideas as well so I do hope that we do get the chance to work together again at some point!"

Something like the above would be unlikely to be considered an attack or complaint and thus unlikely to illicit a negative/defensive response. The intimation that you would still like to work together again would negate the possibility that raising the issue could cost you future bookings. I also think that the tone of something like the above would be mindful of the fact that the photographer was most likely oblivious to what they were saying. However, giving this feedback is a pretty important step towards trying to change the way they conduct themselves during shoots for your sake and the sake of any other models they work with.

And of course, if they do kick off because of a diplomatic and fair message offering feedback then f**k 'em - negative reference on PP and cut them out of your life because nobody needs to accept that kind of negativity in life.

In regards to positive references - whilst they are a useful indicator as to whether somebody is worth a positive public reputation, they are obviously very biased in nature. Individuals of all disciplines are likely to leave positive references that they otherwise wouldn't for a number of reasons: to be diplomatic, to court a reciprocal positive reference, because they don't want to be contrary, to court future work etc. It might also be that the photographer has legitimately deserved all their positive references, but then - for whatever reason - has a bad day or a lapse in judgement on one specific shoot and says or does something they shouldn't. I think the most important thing with positive references is that you do not let them influence the way you feel about your shoot. If you feel like somebody has behaved or spoken in a way that has otherwise left a negative impression on you, then you need to own that regardless of how other people might have felt about their experiences.

I'm sorry that you've had some less than ideal experiences with your shoot, but I really do feel that you need not take them as a personal reflection on you and merely understand that the way somebody behaves is entirely a reflection on them. Meanwhile, keep up the good work!

They'll sell a camera to anybody, they become instant photographers. The majority on here are not photographers, they are joiners, plumbers, teachers, civil servants, doctors, police, solicitors, shop assistants, farmers builders etc...there are sad sacks everywhere.

It’s bad enough to get these type of comments in pre-comms - to receive them on a shoot, especially where the nature of the shoot means the model is likely in a vulnerable state, is simply not ok. Where it happens in messages, you are still in control and can simply decline the shoot - not so when already at the location.

I think it is well worth talking about. Will it stop those who do it to feel empowered and entitled? Nope. But will it maybe bring awareness to those who have made these comments in the past without realising the impact it might have on the model? I think so. At least I hope so.

Lo la said

....I can think of a few modelling shoots through purpleport, even with those with good references, Where things haven't been great....

....It's a toxic element of purpleport...

This may seem unsympathetic, but...

- You do not appear to have left a "not recommended" reference for anyone you have shot with on PP in the last year. I may be wrong - itt's not possible to be 100% certain.

- This means that one wonders which of the "good refences" you left were inaccurate - not fair to the other decent photographers.

Leave "not recommended" references where appropriate.
Report minor poor manners that doesn't justify a "not recommended" reference to admin - they will often issue a warning and/or act on a pattern of behaviour.

indemnity and a lot of models on here are single mum's and cam girls....please don't tarnish what is a hobby for some that we love to do. By a trade we do to put food on our table and house over our head. If I could make what I do in photography vs my job in finance...I would quite happily work as a photographer full time.

Thanks for your responses everyone.

Certainly communication is always tricky especially with new folks.

I can see that certain things were not meant with offence.But I still stand by my point that it is not okay to talk about appearances.And preferences when a model is stud nude in front of you.

It's easy for a lot of photographers to take that stance its not meant to upset etc. However when was the last time most of you modelled particularly nude ? Its totally different standpoint to make an observation from.

Lastly, Huw, None of these situations for me happened recently but I ve only Had the confidence to speak out about it publicly now and certainly didn't have the confidence as a young woman in my twenties. Especially not to confront the photographers.

Easy to tell people to do these things.Not so easy to do them if you're in my situation. Like many models on here.I relied on purple port in my early 20s for part time work , And fearing leaving a negative review would mean I didn't have as much work.It was enough to put me off.

When you're a young woman who is vulnerable and the photographer has your personal details, may have even picked you up from your house.It's not so easy to confront people.

HunterT said

indemnity and a lot of models on here are single mum's and cam girls....please don't tarnish what is a hobby for some that we love to do. By a trade we do to put food on our table and house over our head. If I could make what I do in photography vs my job in finance...I would quite happily work as a photographer full time.

 I don't get what point you are trying to make. These bad eggs are in every walk of life, they'll find a way to abuse the privilege whatever they do.

I have now worked with 6 models that I met here or were contacted by them here. The majority reported bad experiences with photographers. Sometimes things were reported that made me feel really sick. Respect to all women who are still in this business.

There is an old rule "Never touch the model". And, if absolutely necessary (e.g. fixing the hair,...) be sure to ask beforehand. It's a question of respect. And only that creates the necessary trust.

We photographers should be grateful, just very grateful, for what these models are willing to give to us and the interested viewers of the images.

For everything else there's special sites in the worldwide web.

Lo la said

I'm curious to see if anybody has had similar experiences with modeling where things have been said that have not been appropriate.

Explicitly touching a model and being creepy in that way is obviously a no go.And I feel these experiences are quite rare these days.

What I'd like to talk about here is how photographers talk to their models and it's not always done with consideration or a healthy attitude.

In my experience I can think of a few modelling shoots through purpleport, even with those with good references, Where things haven't been great.

Some photographers will tell you how they like models to look, Even specifying that they think things like pubic hair are unattractive!

I've had photographers, who I won't mention, compare me to other models and talk about ideal proportions.And insinuate or blatantly state how certain areas of my body are better than others.

When you are naked in company of a stranger , the power dynamics are strong. It's crazy some people think it's ok to speak like this to a model who is always vunerable because of this!

I find it absolutely unbelievable I've had these experiences where people have chipped away at my confidence due to ignorance. Or perhaps they are aware of what they are doing, and they think that they can shape models that they work with into looking the way they want them to ?

I feel strongly like this needs to be addressed.

It's a toxic element of purpleport and I think there will be a lot of people who ve had similar experiences if not worse.

Photographers need to be much aware of these power dynamics when models are posing nude especially.

Thanks for posting this. It has given me pause for thought, and I think it is important that the point is made.

We all know the things that are absolutely to be avoided on a shoot, but this is more subtle.

It is easy to get drawn into comment on body shape etc when attempting to direct a pose, particularly when shooting art nude. I can see that this might appear as a criticism and undermining when seen from the model's point of view. I don't think I have ever said anything of this nature to a model, but in all honesty I cannot be certain, and I will be more attentive in future.

Lo la "None of these things happened recently" is significant. Especially for the people who have shot with you recently.

There are too many bad experiences on here - and this is probably the safest site because of the reference system.

I appreciate it's tough standing up to them and/or reporting it.

indemnity said

HunterT said

indemnity and a lot of models on here are single mum's and cam girls....please don't tarnish what is a hobby for some that we love to do. By a trade we do to put food on our table and house over our head. If I could make what I do in photography vs my job in finance...I would quite happily work as a photographer full time.

 I don't get what point you are trying to make. These bad eggs are in every walk of life, they'll find a way to abuse the privilege whatever they do.

You said
"The majority on here are not photographers, they are joiners, plumbers, teachers, civil servants, doctors, police, solicitors, shop assistants, farmers builders etc..."

He's pointing out that people can (and many are) BOTH - that their 'day job' does not make them any less of a photographer than someone who is also a professional photographer.